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Wolfeh 09-17-2012 03:49 AM

The meaning of life?
 
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Side note: It took me about two hours to write this ****ing wall, and frankly I'd like it not to be deleted. I'm not trying to antagonize anyone, I'm just freely expressing my opinion. I was actually REALLY high when I wrote it. =x I also know for a fact that no one here will take it seriously, and that it's probably not even going to be read by most people. **** it. It gave me something to do. =\

Extra side note: The grammar is probably not perfect. I don't care. xD I put it through a kind of spell check that automatically fixed things. I think I may have actually invented a word somewhere, too. =x I was seriously really high when I wrote this.

The meaning of life?

This is just my personal opinion. I think that its logic is completely infallible, and this is because it came from me based on the knowledge that I believe I have. It may seem extremely biased to some people towards atheism. My opinion has nothing to do with religion, or proving or disproving the notions passed down by religion. I don't give a ****. This is kind of one track, but it's mostly a very long rant to prove something that most people here probably already know or just don't give a **** about themselves. The reason I'm writing it is 1, out of sheer boredom, and 2, because it's something that I rarely see out of all of the intelligent conversations on this forum. If anything, I'm just explaining my point of view in hopes of eliciting opposition. xD

NOW.

As for why I'm making this topic...

We are human. This is infallible, we know it to be true to the very base of our DNA. We know for a fact that we are made of smaller pieces that become infinitely more small down to the last forever.

Is it this truth that makes us "sentient?" That we know what we are? Do we really know what we actually are? I'm not arguing the fact that we're intelligent thinking machines... but I'll get into that soon. =x

Maybe it's what we've learned over the years that makes us "sentient." Or, at the very least intelligent. We are quite intelligent by our own standards. We've grown to the point to question entire beliefs, hell, that's what I'm doing right now. We have this ability to think independently from outside interaction. We have free will, complete and total control of choice beyond any outside control. We can learn more, and do so freely. We see, smell, hear, and remember in many different ways that are just... incredible. The human body is designed to experience and the mind is designed to analyze, stimulate, and remember. All of our lives, our minds continue to learn and grow, and even though it burns out after a while, future generations live on to continue this practice.

To what end? That's what many people have questioned over the years. Basically, it's the whole "why are we here?" thing that led our earliest thinkers to believe we were "sentient." Truly, if a man could question his own identity, his own purpose, he must be "sentient," he must have a "soul" that proves he is alive.

As history shows, when a culture hangs on to a belief system long enough, that bitch becomes REAL. History also shows that cultures whose belief systems were born in blood run deepest. This shows that humans are capable of believing in a higher power, or rather, having faith in something that they don't fully understand, but believe to be true. That must prove "sentience," because we have the ability to think beyond our own understanding, and question or believe what answers our own thoughts provide. This, above all else must make humans "sentient."

Or... does it? =x

I mean, let's be frank. Our brains are all independent and really like to learn new things. In fact, that's one of the things they do 100% of the time you're alive. Even when you're asleep your brain is learning, or rather going over things it already knows, inside your head, to re-evaluate things in your life. Sometimes you have dreams. Dreams are amazing, the most incredible part of being alive in my opinion. Your mind can be so creative, that even in your sleep, it produces vivid imaginations and memories. You can even control your dreams sometimes and still be asleep! How ****ing cool is that? Really, I mean, we can use our own minds to entertain ourselves while we sleep. That's just one of the amazing things our brains are capable of doing for us... just us.

We're all capable of thinking independently, and yet, belief systems are by definition, multiple people believing in the exact same thing. In many cases, in such a profound way, that it completely defines who a person is from birth until death. This effect goes back many generations that date back by scientific accounts, for millions of years and across a few major evolutionary changes. It means that we as humans had a lot of time to grow and pass on our growth to our children.

What I am focusing on is the fact that through the years, we have learned solely from those who came before us, and genetically, we have received the gift of knowledge from these individuals. It seems somewhere along the line, as we grew into who we are now, that gift of knowledge has been handed down very forcefully by those in power. Those who perceived themselves as the strongest, or the smartest, would eventually take over, especially if they proved their worthiness to others. As generations came forth, they learned to respect those that came before them, and learned from the knowledge their great forefathers provided.

Problem is, a lot of their great forefathers were ****ing idiots. It took them, what, 10,000 years of approximately the same level of intelligence to invent the wheel? These are essentially people, they have brains, they just don't know enough information to actually DO anything with them. They don't know how to do things, or why things actually happen, and their brains are still developing compared to ours.

I think the first things their brains understood was death. To be fair, we've been experiencing death for a few hundred million years before we became human, so, I think our brains were mostly programmed for self preservation from the moment we became "sentient." We, as humans, were bred on the basis of "strength in numbers." Our earliest relevant ancestors lived maybe two or three years, but lived together in groups and bred furiously. This trend went on nonstop for centuries, which gave us a ****load of numbers to begin with, and ultimately led to our brain's design today.

Humans are social animals. We are animals, by every definition. One could argue that an animal is not a "sentient" being, but who are we to judge an animal that may even now be more intelligent than our ancestors 10,000 years ago, like the dolphin. If one animal can grow to the power we have, why can't every other animal? After all, we are all basically the same thing: a vessel containing a working, thinking brain.

Somewhere along the line, our ancestors started learning how to do things. They were still primitive, but their brains could interpret data in such a way that it could be assimilated into practical function. The more they learned, the more they grew. Just like the dolphin took centuries to reach its current intelligence level, we humans took centuries to reach this level of intelligence.

Unfortunately long before we learned how to interpret data, we learned that somehow, we had become one of the tough guys. We could kill other animals for food instead of just eating grass, hell, we probably ate each other for a good while. We watched other life forms that had evolved before us and noticed that they traveled in packs to survive, we took into account the fact that we needed togetherness to survive, and that together we were stronger than we were alone.

This undoubtedly led to a few hundred years of chaos in our evolution. Neanderthals mugging each other in the forrest and raping women, looking to prove that they deserve to lead. The weak banded together to protect themselves from the tyranny of the strong, and the weak used knowledge to fight the strength of the strong. The weak brought order to chaos to fight the cause of the chaos, and eventually, the chaos ended and the weak and strong found unilarity, if nothing else. There's no way to know for sure, but I feel that this is the moment where we began to respect the sanctity of life, at least to a small degree.

This is just a generalized example, but really, even the first time two people fighting chose reason over violence is the most valid example I could give.

It is through war that we as people evolved, and there can be no other logical cause. Humans, like all animals, grow out of necessity. I would hazard a guess that war is a key factor in our growth in knowledge. World War II alone pushed us ahead at least a decade. It was probably the deciding factor in us becoming who we are today, based off of the belief systems we've all had for the past 2500 years or so.

Therefore it is a fair assumption that it is the belief system itself that is the bi-product of war, not the other way around. I'll admit, that argument has a ****load of holes in it right now, but trust me, I'm going to cover a few. xD

Somewhere in the human evolution, we developed clear emotions. There's no way of knowing when this evolution occurred, it may have been very early. We know that animals have emotions, so it's possible humans have had emotions since long before we were actually human. We don't know how emotions are caused, or why we have them. I'd guess it's something that has to do with self preservation, since most of our key brain functions were created to serve that purpose. How emotions actually became such a deciding factor in our lives is a mystery. There's no way to understand when or how emotions affected our ancestors lives, either. I'd imagine that most of them were more than just emotionally unbalanced, but also mentally unbalanced.

Living under extremely harsh conditions, many early humans probably suffered from severe schizophrenia. Those whose minds did not diminish were probably emotionally affected by much of what they saw, because let's face it, when your friends are being eaten by a sabertooth tiger and you have no way to defend yourself, you're probably ****ting yourself and crying.

Humans had to interpret their emotions in some way. If they understood that soft fluffy fur made them happy and warm, and that pain hurt and made them angry, they must have done everything in their power to make themselves happy, and their comfort must have come at a price.

Let's say someone suffering from schizophrenic paranoia just happens to take over a tribe of early humans. This guy's obviously a psychopath, but he might be the strongest, or maybe the others just really trust him. He may be the cause of great rewards, or he may be the cause of great death. Look at the past for evidence. Hitler is the most recent and very valid. Ghengis Khan, the pharaohs, even the first leaders of ancient Europe all had psychopathic tendencies and greatly believed that their lives were in danger. Many times their lives were in danger, which only fueled their paranoia.

Early humans probably had the same tendencies, if not more heinous ones. These people live in caves and fear for their life every day. If a leader promises them comfort through the elimination of his enemies, these people will gladly conform to follow his will. Morality simply wasn't a virtue shared by everyone. It still isn't.

But it had to come from somewhere, didn't it?

What is morality? It's the conscious decision to preserve life, or at least feel sympathy. Morality is a virtue that many people hold dear today. Early humans probably understood that their leaders wanted more than they needed. Power hunger came early because the more powerful these early humans were, the happier they were, and that was all that mattered. Humans again felt terrorized by these individuals, and again wars would begin.

Lines were drawn early determining who was right and who was wrong because everyone believed themself to be absolutely right if it suited their desires. When one died for a cause, one fueled that cause, and ultimately the causes grew to become a defining part of early human's life.

It's most likely around this time that religion became important to early human. If one dies for a cause, surely, one must receive rewards. If one dies in the pursuit of happiness, should he not find his happiness in the next world? For that matter, where the **** does one go when one dies? **** like this starts to matter, it starts to plant the seed of wonder in the human mind.

I'd imagine they asked themselves what was so worth dying for eventually... and again, the human mind is so limited to what it already knows, that it can't find any logical reason to justify dying to satisfy the needs of others. That's where religion comes in.

This is just my personal belief, and I make no claims to say that it's true. I think that religion as a whole was created for the sole purpose of instigating war. If one is to believe that something is worth dying for, death simply must be a decent alternative, right?

It's safe to assume that after a while morality became more and more virtuous, since the basic rules of many religions now clearly focus on the sanctity of life, if not doing the right thing. Ultimately, religion still continues to be used as a tool to instigate war, but as I've pretty much pointed out, it's to be expected until humans universally share a common belief system of some kind.

Ironically, that future is very close. But it's not based on religion anymore. Material wealth eventually became the shining star at the end of the war-path, and for the most part still is, but now it's moving towards technology. Humans are now using technology as a tool to seek unilarity, much the same way religion worked.

The funny thing is that technology wasn't forced on us like religion was. It has actually become so important to us in our daily lives that we need it more than religion, and therefore religion is no longer a necessary concept for us to focus on. We wouldn't kill for a computer chip, and no one wants to kill us for our computer chips. Gods kind of illicit those responses. Our lack of need for death to make ourselves happy pretty much makes religion an unnecessary concept, since the very basic anatomy of a religious belief system focuses on what happens after you die.

That being said, it is not that religion does not still play a vital role in our existence. We wouldn't be so willing to embrace technology if we didn't believe we were secure in the afterlife. Religion has directly caused us to be confident that death is a good thing, it's helped us comprehend death in a way that makes sense to us, even if we have no way of knowing whether or not it's true.

Belief in a higher power. One that we can't understand. It's wonderful. Impossible, but wonderful.

The need for there to be a higher power is simply the mind's way of rationally putting together logic handed down by people who, before hand, considered themselves to be gods among their own people.

It's disinformation transformed through centuries of stories passed down throughout countless generations of psychopaths, schizoids, emos, and weaklings who bowed to things they didn't understand.

The fact is, in my mind, that there can be no God because God himself is a human concept, and is therefore not relevant to this argument based on what I am about to say:

Human life has no meaning.

Life itself is a human concept. I mean, we are "alive," but our definition of "alive" is based solely on the parameters of our existence.

We are organic machines. We are complex organic machines. We are made up of elements that exist in our universe, hell, on our own planet. We have evolved to a state of cognitive function beyond that of any other species of life form ever known to exist on this planet. We've survived roughly a billion years of genetic evolution to get where we are now. That information alone can be so overwhelming if you think about it.

We believe there has to be a reason we're here now, but we're simply ignoring it.

We're here because we won. Natural selection. We're the product of about two or three billion years of growth. We weren't randomly placed here, we grew here. If humans didn't deserve to be the ultimate race, then we wouldn't be. We're just the best that this world has to offer with what it's got to work with.

Life goes on no matter where life exists. It's not hard to find in this universe, I'm personally sure. The universe itself is so fascinating in every aspect of its very existence. We humans evolved thanks to what the universe provided us with. We are its creations. This is our only reality.

Our reality is ultimate. There are no "ifs." There are aspects of our reality that we could never understand and for that matter, may have ultimately led to our existence whether we believe it or not. That doesn't change the fact that our reality is real, it just means that we may be perceiving it wrong, which is perfectly understandable.

Our brains can only know what they have already experienced, and it can only create inferences based on the information it already has. There could be facts more radical than anything we could ever believe to be true. Right now the only logical way we can interpret our universe is muddled with centuries of stagnant belief systems burned into our minds through centuries of bloodshed.

We have failed to realize the full potential of the minds that we have now because we have failed to embrace their full potential. We're happy the way we are. We evolve only through necessity, and for the past 2500 years we've had no need for evolution because we've been focusing on the material aspects of our lives.

That being said, I am now dividing a parallel between the two points:

We have been focusing on making ourselves happy in the way that we perceive happiness now. This has remained relatively the same since intelligent man evolved 10,000 years ago or so, although I'd assume long before that, we sought out happiness in other ways. The only other evolutions we have made was understanding technology, which was a bi-product of the search for ultimate happiness based on our current desires.

For all intents and purposes, we have been evolving in this respect. We are growing as a people based on our technological achievements, but in reality, we have drawn focus from the aspect of evolving as individuals.

We haven't needed to, because most likely this is the last form of evolution we will ever achieve based on the way we're going right now.

Material desires have left us vulnerable. We halted the natural growth process of our people due to the desire to have material wealth, and the fact that material wealth has become the ultimate desire of our race as a collective.

The thing is, for the past 2500 years, we've gotten lazy. Material wealth has made us happy and dumber our ability to support ourselves as a people. We survive on concepts created entirely by us, based on our own ideas. For 2500 years humans have become their own gods in that they dictated the path their existence would take by taking control of it for themselves and dictating the direction it moved. Material wealth was the desire of the most powerful, and therefore became the most desirable thing in human life.

For the most part we'd had complete control over our existence to begin with, but we had no need to sustain ourselves. The earth sustained us. Eventually we bypassed the earth and altered just about everything pertinent to our existence by introducing our own engineering, thus destroying the natural path this world took for billions of years.

In essence we abandoned a system of complete universal harmony for one that was completely created by us. We created an environment that would be completely sustained by us, and became completely dependent on it. Even now, we need material wealth, technology, and the means to accomplish goals in our own lives. All of these things were never needed before humans took over. I therefore believe that we, as a race, have taken on a responsibility similar to the one we believe God himself has.

I know that as individuals there's nothing we can do to alter what's already been done. Even if we all joined together in the common goal of turning the earth back the way it was, it would be impossible, and the very notion would be laughed at by everyone.

We don't understand that in doing what we have done, we have completely forgotten the most basic principals of our existence. What started out as self preservation became self alteration, and finally we became something that we can't fully explain. We're afraid because we don't understand what's next. The reason we don't understand is because we created our future for ourselves, and ultimately, our end, or prosperity will be based on how we move forward as a race. Right now it's blatantly obvious that we're not moving forward at all.

We can't rely on belief systems to explain the unknown, just as we can't allow them to dictate the direction we take our lives. We can't be satisfied with what we already have. We're a race designed to learn, to grow, and to enjoy the experience of learning and growing. The time we waste focusing on old concepts could be spent discovering new information. The time we waste focusing on ideas such as morality or the sanctity of life is spent destroying our environment and overpopulating our planet.

We destroyed the balance of whatever life we originally had when we took over. If there ever really was a meaning to life, it's long gone now. This life of ours has no higher meaning. Our minds were too busy hanging on to what they wanted instead of what they needed.

This is the end of my rant, so I'll just kind of summarize it. Lulz, I so doubt anyone will read this. xD

We are thinking machines that have developed many incredible traits over centuries of evolution. We let our traits dictate the direction of our lives and ultimately we changed the course of our lives beyond any natural means. We created this existence for ourselves with technology we created by ourselves through knowledge gained by ourselves.

We have no one to thank for being here but ourselves. We deserve it. We evolved where others didn't. We're not lucky, we're strong, and our brains are evidence of this. That doesn't change that all life forms, down to the smallest single cell organisms, are intelligent thinking machines with preprogramming to do whatever is necessary for 1, the continued survival of their race, and 2, the pursuit of an environment that makes them happy. If humans are "sentient," then, therefore, all life is "sentient" on every level and has the capacity to grow just as we have. We should already have realized this by now. We're not special so much as we're the best.

All information that we perceive to be true is based only on our limited understanding of what we know to be true. There is no way of proving that what we know is true because the concept of truth or false was created by humans. Our own intelligence is based off of what our mind perceives, and nothing more. If we are told to believe something, and offered proof, or a majority belief that this is true, we are in no position to disbelieve it's truth because we have no reason to disbelieve it is true. This is the limitation of our human mind. There used to only be truth. We made **** up. We got confused. Our ancestors were idiots who believed anything they were told to be true. Eventually, they turned into us by growing over centuries and conforming the world itself to suit their needs.

Some of those needs required extraordinary means, including the death of many people, and the reformation of the entire earth eco-system to suit human desires. Belief systems and advanced technology have effectively caused the earth to end up like it is now, and it's all our fault.

There's also no guarantee that by changing our ways, we can fix anything that's already been done. I'd imagine that we're long over-due for some kind of evolutionary change. The amount of drugs and chemicals that we've introduced into our own physiology may have hindered any chances we have of evolving past our normal state. We may also have destroyed the world without even knowing it yet by destroying it's natural eco-systems.

Humans know only what they perceive to be true. There is no way to tell them otherwise because belief systems dictate infallibility, and the people who make the most important decisions involving the future of our race are predisposed to protect their belief systems at all cost, therefore making it impossible for us to move forward practically and unilaterally at the same time. Relying on the knowledge we already have has gotten us far technologically, but the basis of our existence right now has nothing to do with the core nature of our existence, or any creature's existence for that matter. Our existence is currently based solely on sustaining itself from internal collapse.

Until such time that we can all act together towards the next stage in our existence, we will continue down the same road we're going.

How's that working out for us, btw? =x

bloodpack 09-17-2012 12:57 PM

bah...my brain cells cant handle these foreign texts :huh2:

lolz jk! :colgate:

at one point your discussing/lecturing and the next youre kinda asking questions (to yourself/us) or was it thinking aloud?

ill have to re-read this over again...

frognap 09-17-2012 04:10 PM

I agree to some statements, And you seem to have been thinking about this for quite a while.

A lot of these "questions" and "systems of thought" are indeed human creations. We create our own riddles to which we do not know the answer. And as humanity loses the answers to its own creations, It starts to look for "alternatives".

Our violent past, Was indeed the cause of severe progress. As technology gets pushed to the limits as we had to have it more than ever, For one Tiny fact : "To stay alive".

I can follow your logic, But as people are different i do not agree with every tiny or big statement. But it was fun to read, In a way.
It takes me back to when i was into reading through big fat encyclopedias.

SSJKarma 09-18-2012 03:45 AM

to be truly honest im not sure what i just read, a big giant rant who says **** you religion, or a big giant rant who just said who the hell are we.

im gonna be as drect as i am used to be here about who we are because it is quite simple...
those who say we're a machine well made, no we're not... a small virus can wreck us in seconds.

we are sentient and thinking outside the box... no we're not !
we have instincts like animals do... we want survival just like them, we want sexe just like them.
we wanna eat, drink, be dominant just like them. no we're not different because we think more.

we do more then them animals...
i wonder about that, we're conditionned right at our very birth, even before that.
we're conditionned to live as a human being and thats what made who we are.
if you hadn't been conditionned in breathing, you wouldn't be alive right now.
if you hadn't been conditionned by your parentsd into who you are today, you'd be a whole different person.
if you hadn't met certain friends, you'd not be high when you wrote this.

we are who we are cause we been conditionned by our very environment, just like any other animals
thats we tamed.

life happens, and life is nothing but a word created by mankind to explain certain things.
there is nothing else to evolution, there is no questions, there shouldn'T be questions.
we are who we are final, enjoy it or hate it, but dont ask why you are there.
thats only gonna hurt you more in the long run.

Wolfeh 09-19-2012 04:59 AM

Having re-read this a couple of times, I'm pretty sure I make a good point, but there's a lot of holes that I'll probably fill in if anyone has something to say. xD

~TR~Robert 09-23-2012 02:41 PM

I know ill probable get some **** from this but as a Christian i could answer most your questions and the ones i could not i could look and find in the bible. We are created by God in his image. We are sinful worldly beings that delight in our pleasures and whats best for us. All good things come from God and Jesus all bad things come from the enemy Satan. There is a bigger picture going on then most ppl choose to see or believe in. Good and evil are at war and mankind is in the middle. Your "soul" is the prize and free will allows us to choose what paths we take in out life and both sides attempt to either have us rise or fall. Now im not trying to force my religion or beliefs on anyone im simply stating this is what i believe and have come to see. I'm 28 and have seen things most have not and suffered more then most but as i continue to grow and live in this world my eyes are open to certain things and i see the world how few do.

shad0wslayer 09-23-2012 09:31 PM

I believe the correct answer is 42

SSJKarma 09-23-2012 11:12 PM

23 to be honest !

~TR~Robert 09-24-2012 02:21 AM

your both wrong answer was C

SSJKarma 09-24-2012 03:23 AM

but "C" is the third letter of the alphabet preceded by 2 letters which gives us 3 and 2 or if you preffer, 23 !

~TR~Robert 09-24-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJKarma (Post 759842)
but "C" is the third letter of the alphabet preceded by 2 letters which gives us 3 and 2 or if you preffer, 23 !

Check out the Big brain on brad!!!


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